Vana: How a Blockchain Data Project Won the Recognition of Paradigm and a16z
This interview features Art Abal, Managing Director of Vana Foundation and co-founder of Vana Protocol. Vana focuses on empowering individuals to own and benefit from their data, addressing key challenges in AI and Web3 through innovations like Data DAOs and Data Liquidity Pools.
Art discusses how Vana ensures data quality, engages its community, and differentiates itself from other Web3 projects. He also highlights the role of Vana tokens in governance and transactions, the speculative potential of dataset-specific tokens, and plans for the upcoming mainnet launch. This conversation provides a concise look at Vana’s mission to transform data ownership and unlock its value for AI.
This audio was transcribed using GPT, and minor errors may exist. Listen to the full podcast:
YouTube: https://youtu.be/3zjtczIPfgA
Opening & Self Introduction
Ehan:
Today, we’re excited to have Art Abal joining us. Vana has been gaining attention for its innovative approach to data liquidity in Web3. Let’s dive in. Could you start by introducing yourself and the Vana Project?
Art:
Yes, of course. Hello, everyone. My name is Art, and yes, I’m the Managing Director of the Vana Foundation and co-founder of the Vana Protocol. So, why does Vana exist? To address a critical problem in the development of AI: the need for data. Public data is almost completely exhausted. It has already been scraped and used in many of today’s models. This is a problem because data is like oil for AI — it powers everything. Companies developing AI are constantly seeking new data.
So where is this data? Only a small percentage of data is public. The rest is private, hidden behind paywalls or stored in databases inaccessible to crawlers and scrapers. One way to access this data is directly from users. In Web2, this practice is called data farming or field collection, where a central company or platform collects data from individuals, packages it, and sells it. In Web3, however, we can accomplish the same thing with tokens, protocols, and data DAOs. This enables individuals to benefit from the immense value and power that their data creates.
What we’re doing at Vana is liberating the data marketplace, allowing people like you and me to benefit from the value of their data while also unlocking immense possibilities for AI by providing it with new streams of data for training.
I personally come from a background in quantitative research and data sourcing. I worked at Appen, one of the world’s largest data brokers, sourcing data that supported major AI models like ChatGPT and platforms like Google Search and Google Ads. My experience is rooted in the data marketplace and the challenges with traditional centralized systems. My co-founder, Anna, launched her first AI company through Y Combinator and later became one of the founding engineers at Celo, a mobile-first Layer 1 blockchain. Her expertise lies in AI and blockchain.
The genesis story of Vana is that Anna and I met while studying at MIT — she was at MIT, and I was at Harvard. We were in a class focused on addressing emerging tech challenges. We identified a major issue in AI: the need for high-quality data. We also saw an opportunity for individuals to participate in this new AI ecosystem by owning their data. That’s how Vana came about.
How did Vana establish its partnership with Paradigm?
Ehan:
Vana attracted investment from Paradigm, which typically invests in projects with high growth potential. Could you walk us through how this partnership came to be?
Art:
Yes, I get this question a lot. I think many people are curious about how Paradigm decides to invest. I want to clarify that this is just my personal opinion — I can’t speak for our investors and partners, as they surely have their own perspectives.
From my experience, Paradigm and similar investors look for three key qualities in projects. The first is a big, system-changing idea. Paradigm is drawn to projects with transformative potential, not just incremental improvements or trendy concepts. They are interested in deep tech that redefines how humans can operate at scale.
The second quality is founders uniquely suited to execute the vision. Anyone can have an idea, but Paradigm always asks, “Why you?” They want to know what about your background, skills, or experience makes you and your team the right people to bring the vision to life. Anna and I explained why this problem aligned with our expertise and why it was a natural progression for what we had been doing.
The third quality is ingenuity — smart, adaptive problem-solving. Building a startup means constantly racing to stay ahead of the curve. The only way to do that is to innovate and find creative solutions to stay ahead of trends. Paradigm appreciated that Anna and I are relentless innovators, always searching for an edge and striving to remain ahead of the pack. That ingenuity was one of the key qualities they found interesting about us.
Key strengths that attracted Paradigm’s investment
Ehan:
Are there specific qualities or matches Vana emphasized that were instrumental in securing Paradigm’s interest?
Art:
Yeah, I would say it’s those similar three things. The factors that were really instrumental for us included the fact that Anna and I had a background in both AI, data, and crypto. We weren’t just entering this space without experience. We understood a real-world problem that exists in Web2, which is data availability and the lack of user ownership.
We were prepared to implement foundational technology to really solve that problem. So I think Paradigm was very interested in the vision, but also in the positioning — that Anna and I were the right people to solve this problem, both for society and for them.
Specific reasons why Paradigm recognized Vana’s potential
Ehan:
From your perspective, what specific aspects of Vana convinced Paradigm of the project’s potential in Web3 and AI?
Art:
Yes, I think one very important factor for them was that we presented a problem that truly exists, for which blockchain was a sensible solution. Sometimes there’s a tendency to apply Web3 to problems that don’t really exist, but this isn’t one of those cases.
The biggest problem with data is that individual data on its own isn’t as valuable as when it’s aggregated with data from many people. That’s what gives Web2 platforms so much power — they centralize data, and then they can monetize and sell it.
In a community setting, we need something else to bring that centralization process in. That’s what the Vana ecosystem and the Vana chain achieve. What excited many of our partners and investors is that Vana provides a very sensible use case for a real problem. It offers a practical way to apply crypto to address the data aggregation issue, enabling data to be financialized collectively rather than in a centralized way.
What strategic support did Paradigm provide beyond funding?
Ehan:
Did Paradigm offer any strategic support beyond funding, such as mentorship or market insights, that helped Vana in its scaling process?
Art:
Yes, of course. It’s very important for early-stage founders to ensure they’re partnering with aligned investors. Anna and I have been fortunate to work with investors formally partnered with us, as well as others in our network who have provided valuable help.
If I had to identify the top three things that investors have brought to us, the first would be connections — networks are incredibly valuable. They enable partnerships, recruiting, and a host of other critical aspects of growth.
The second is thought leadership. Investors, especially those at the forefront, are often very ahead of the curve when it comes to trends in AI, crypto, and databases. Access to Paradigm’s insights and intelligence has been invaluable for ensuring that we deploy our resources in the most effective ways.
The third is recognition. Going through a due diligence process with a top-tier VC like Paradigm sends a strong market signal that your project offers something of immense importance and potential industry-changing value. The process itself isn’t easy — anyone who has raised capital knows it can be very challenging. But going through it with firms like Paradigm shows that your foundational technology and vision are compelling and executable, according to some of the industry’s top thinkers.
Collaboration and interaction with the a16z team
Ehan:
Recently, a16z partner Justine Moore mentioned Vana as the only Web3 project in her article on building the AI brand. Although a16z isn’t one of Vana’s investors, have you had any interactions or discussions with them?
Art:
Yes, I mean, the investor networks in the United States are fairly small, especially among some of the top-tier crypto investors. So we know the a16z team very well. Although they haven’t directly invested in Vana, we’ve received a lot of indirect and informal support from them — great connections through their wonderful team. Justine, Chris, and Ariana have been fantastic to me and Anna, and I really appreciate having them as supporters of our mission and goals.
Ultimately, I think the reason why they’ve been so helpful to us is that we are all aligned in trying to drive Web3 forward. We want to make it more accessible and ensure that Web3 addresses real problems. I believe we’ve been able to showcase not just to a16z, but also to the broader crypto community, that Vana isn’t a solution looking for a problem. There is a real issue here, and blockchain is the right solution. It could be incredibly transformative for the sector.
How does Vana stand out to attract investors in a competitive space?
Ehan:
Given the competitive nature of Web3 and data-driven projects, how does Vana differentiate itself to attract both institutional investors like Paradigm and potential new backers?
Art:
Yeah, that’s a really good question. The important thing about Vana — and really any Web3 project — is that it needs to be digestible and relatable to everyone. In the digital Web3 world, we all create data every day. The idea that this data is used without your consent, and without you getting any financial upside, resonates not just with major VCs who understand how the ecosystem will evolve in an AI-driven economy, but also with everyday people.
For instance, when I’m taking an Uber or sitting in an airport lounge and someone asks what I do, I tell them about how their data’s value isn’t fully realized. They immediately understand. I think one of Vana’s strengths is that we have a dual message: first, that data underpins the entire AI ecosystem, and second, that this data is personal and relatable to individuals. Your data creates value for someone else, and you’re not part of that transaction — this strikes a chord with people.
What has helped us stand out is our ability to tell these two interconnected stories. On one hand, we present the broad ecosystem change that comes with data fueling AI. On the other, we make it personal, showing individuals how their own data can empower them. By combining these narratives, we’ve been able to engage investors, community members, and new audiences interested in our project.
Ultimately, our core message is that by allowing users to own their data and using blockchain to aggregate it, we’re putting power back into the users’ hands while enabling groundbreaking AI advancements. This dual value proposition is what makes Vana unique and compelling.
Thoughts on VC-backed projects and the rise of meme coins
Ehan:
As we see interest shifting away from VC-backed tokens toward meme coins, even some projects backed by Paradigm have faced controversy. What’s your take on this trend, given recent controversies surrounding some of these coins? What should projects consider to avoid such pitfalls?
Art:
Yeah, I completely understand this sentiment. It’s often easier, and sometimes a lot more fun, to speculate on meme coins. I’ll approach this from two perspectives. First, how to evaluate and position projects as strong investment opportunities beyond meme coins. Second, how data DAOs might be considered a new form of meme coin, but I’ll get to that in a moment.
Regarding positioning projects, I want to emphasize that this is not investment advice, just my personal perspective. Personally, I follow three key rules when evaluating a project’s legitimacy.
First, does it have a purposeful use of blockchain? Does the use case make sense given the technology being employed? If the functionality or solution could be better achieved through centralized mechanisms or another approach, then I’m less optimistic about the project. That’s usually a sign of a solution looking for a problem, rather than a genuine problem for which blockchain provides the best solution.
Second, look closely at the cap table. It’s critical to understand who invested, under what terms, and what their alignment is with the project’s mission. For instance, patient investors who incubate deep tech, like Paradigm, or mission-driven backers like Coinbase Ventures, are preferable. For us, choosing aligned investors has been intentional, and it’s important to think critically about the signals your investors send to the community. Ultimately, the community is the reason your project exists.
Third, know the founders. Founders need to be out there talking to people and giving others the opportunity to understand their vision. I always try to attend events and speak to individuals interested not just in investing in tokens but also in using our products. Building strong connections with the community — even across language and cultural barriers — is essential, and I hope that dedication is visible in our work.
Finally, some people suggest that data DAO tokens being developed on Vana could be considered a new type of meme coin. These tokens allow people to speculate on datasets the same way they might speculate on cultural movements or memes. For example, someone might believe that 23andMe’s dataset or WeChat’s data could be highly valuable and choose to invest in those tokens. If you’re drawn to this kind of mimetic investment opportunity, I encourage you to explore data DAO tokens when Vana launches its mainnet. It could be an exciting way to engage early with these innovations.
How does Vana build trust with data contributors and the community?
Ehan:
Given that Vana’s data model is relatively novel, how are you building trust with potential data contributors and the community?
Art:
Building trust starts with technological reliability. One often-overlooked aspect is the deep technology underpinning the Vana ecosystem. Many people think that aggregating data is a simple task, but having worked in a Web2 company attempting it, I know it’s incredibly challenging. To establish trust, we must offer technology that truly works for contributors and users.
There are three key technological elements we focus on.
First is proof of contribution. When you contribute data, the data DAO defines what qualifies as good or high-quality data. This proof is universally applied so that everyone knows the system is fair and reliable.
Second is trustless data verification. We’ve implemented a trusted execution environment to validate the data. This ensures that while your data is being checked, it remains private and secure. Users want assurance that their precious data won’t be leaked during this process.
Third is our granular data permissioning system. In 2023, we developed a patent that enables users to permission their data at a granular level using their wallets. Just as you can permission tokens and transact with them, you can now do the same with data. This innovation ensures users retain control over their data, creating a trusted environment.
Additionally, being transparent and available to the community is vital. Conversations like this one are a great way to connect with users. By addressing real-world problems and being accessible, we aim to foster trust in the community. This combination of robust technology and open communication is the foundation of our approach to building trust.
How do data liquidity pools and Data DAOs operate?
Ehan:
It seems Vana’s foundation lies in its data liquidity network, particularly the data liquidity pools (DLPs) and Data DAOs. Could you explain how these components operate together? Also, how many Data DAOs have been built, and can they be categorized?
Art:
Yes, of course. Let me address the last part of your question first. Since launching the testnet in June, over 300 Data DAOs have been created on the Vana network. To clarify, these were not created by Vana itself but by individuals using the missionless framework of our network. Anyone can create a Data DAO by visiting build.vana.org for instructions. For instance, someone might think Twitter could be a valuable data source and create a DAO for Twitter data, allowing others to contribute data there.
Currently, there are 16 Data DAOs in incubation, set to launch alongside our mainnet. Broadly, these DAOs can be categorized into emerging areas like health and longevity data (e.g., genomic sequencing, mental health, fitness trackers), Web2 social media data (e.g., LinkedIn, Reddit, Instagram), and specialized financial data for applications like prediction markets.
As for how Data DAOs and data liquidity pools work together, DLPs are a core feature of the Vana ecosystem. Users contribute their data in exchange for tokens, creating what we call data liquidity. Each Data DAO or liquidity pool focuses on a specific type of data. As more data flows into the network, its utility grows for both individuals and developers, amplifying what we term “data network effects.”
Data DAOs act as governance layers, ensuring trustless operation of these liquidity pools. When a user contributes data, the DAO governs how it is managed, ensuring contributors retain control while benefiting from community-driven decision-making. For example, the Reddit Data DAO recently passed a resolution for a data sale, showcasing how communities can collectively govern and utilize datasets.
How is Vana different from other Web3 data projects?
Ehan:
How is Vana’s data liquidity model distinct from data markets in other Web3 projects? And how do Data DAOs manage governance and quality control within their specific pools?
Art:
That’s a great question. What makes Vana distinct is that we focus on ensuring accessibility for Web2 AI consumers. Having over 20 years of combined experience in AI data sourcing and sales with Web2 companies, we deeply understand their requirements and have tailored our infrastructure to meet those needs.
A key differentiator is Vana’s incentive layer, which facilitates the marketplace rather than directly operating it. We’ve partnered with ecosystem players like TensorSource, which connects Web2 demand to Data DAOs, commercializing the data on their behalf, and Super Protocol, which provides trusted execution environments for secure data computations. Vana incubates the environment for these marketplaces to thrive, bringing data suppliers and demand creators together in a trustless system.
As for governance and quality control, proof of contribution is critical. Each DAO sets its standards for data quality, and this is enforced through validation mechanisms. Some may worry that DAOs could set overly low standards, but Vana’s innovation lies in dataset-specific tokens. Each dataset token aligns the economic incentive with quality. For instance, a low-quality dataset is likely to be outcompeted by a higher-quality alternative. Buyers and their agents will naturally gravitate towards superior datasets.
Additionally, Vana incentivizes high-quality contributions through programs like the Data Liquidity Pool (DLP) Rewards Program, where community members can vote and stake tokens on the highest-performing Data DAOs. This competitive and community-driven approach drives continuous innovation and quality improvement across the network.
For example, on our platform, we’ve seen nine separate Twitter Data DAOs created. The one with the highest quality data will naturally emerge as the preferred choice, driven by economic incentives. Community governance also plays a significant role, helping to identify and reward high-quality datasets while ensuring that the network remains robust and valuable.
How does Vana ensure data quality, and what is the role of its token?
Ehan:
Vana converts user data into tradable assets. How does it ensure data quality, and what role does the token play in this ecosystem?
Art:
The quality of the data is driven by several factors, such as dataset-specific tokens that create incentives for maintaining high standards. Additionally, the Data Liquidity Pool (DLP) rewards program allows the community to vote and signal their preferences by endorsing data sets they believe are doing well or flagging those that are not. This economic incentive mechanism ensures quality without needing to enforce strict, standardized functions.
We considered creating universal benchmarks for data quality but realized it’s impractical because data varies significantly. For instance, WhatsApp data is entirely different from Instagram data or video data from YouTube. Quality benchmarks are better established at the DAO level by those communities, with competition among communities driving improvements.
As for the Vana Token, it operates similarly to Ethereum in that it powers all data transactions across the ecosystem. It also supports governance through DLP rewards. Token holders can stake tokens in high-performing Data DAOs, helping them succeed in the rewards program. This staking not only secures the network but also ensures continuous improvements in data quality while keeping the ecosystem community-driven and valuable.
Growth potential of dataset-specific tokens
Ehan:
Could you discuss the growth potential of these tokens, especially since they offer cumulative value backed by actual datasets?
Art:
Dataset-specific tokens have a dynamic growth potential. One trend we’ve observed is data speculators entering the ecosystem and identifying valuable datasets, driving up the token price. For example, the Reddit Data DAO token’s market cap reached around $30 million shortly after launch — a notable but extreme case.
In an ideal scenario, these tokens allow for a robust buy-sell market. Users contribute data to the market, like Facebook user data, and speculators or AI experts who recognize the value of that dataset might purchase the tokens. This exchange fosters an economic equilibrium, connecting buyers and sellers effectively.
Speculation on dataset-specific tokens is a critical driver for adoption and innovation within Vana. Investors in these tokens are motivated to ensure the datasets are commercializable and useful for AI applications, aligning incentives to improve and maintain the quality of the data.
How does Vana secure user data and ensure privacy?
Ehan:
Can you explain how Vana secures user data and ensures privacy throughout the process?
Art:
Vana ensures data security and privacy through a combination of technology, trustless validation, and incentive structures. Our goal is to create a system where data can be verified and aggregated without compromising user privacy.
The first element is trustless validation. Data is validated using a secure data ingress and a network of trusted execution nodes. These nodes validate data against predefined guidelines set by the Data DAO. This ensures contributors’ data remains private during validation, with a Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) issuing zero-knowledge proofs to verify the data’s validity without exposing it.
The second element is granular permissioning. Users can manage their data like they manage tokens in a wallet, transacting with it without third-party intervention. This empowers users with ownership and control over their data.
The third element is data provenance. By putting data on-chain, users can track how and when their data is used throughout its lifecycle. For example, operations conducted on the Vana chain will allow users to see how their data is utilized and, under certain terms, potentially earn upside from technologies leveraging their contributions.
In contrast to Web2, where data often disappears into the ether, Web3 offers transparency. Users will know precisely how their data is employed, fostering a trusted environment for both security and privacy.
Why was Telegram chosen as the platform for user interaction?
Ehan:
Vana launched the Vana Data Hero bot on Telegram for user interaction. Why was Telegram the ideal platform for the launch? And what other interaction methods will be available for users in the future?
Art:
Good question. We often get asked about why we chose Telegram. Ultimately, we picked it because it’s familiar and an accessible platform where our community already exists. Data is something everyone has, and we wanted onboarding and participation to feel easy. The response so far has been incredible.
We’re already planning further platform features for deeper engagement after the mainnet launch. Looking ahead, there will be three key touchpoints for user interaction. First is the Data Hub — a central platform where users can discover new Data DAOs, trade DAO tokens for Vana tokens, stake in top Data DAOs, and track their participation over time to earn rewards.
Second is the Build Hub — a resource for Data DAO creators and developers looking to build applications on Vana. The Build Hub will feature community-driven initiatives and bounties for contributors.
Third is community interaction through platforms like Telegram, Discord, Twitter, online events, and in-person gatherings. We’ll continue to reward active participants in these spaces. For those interested, I encourage you to get involved on Discord, Telegram, or Twitter.
The main interaction within the Vana ecosystem happens directly in the Data DAOs. I recommend listeners visit the Vana Telegram mini app, where all Data DAOs are listed. Some are live and collecting data on the testnet, while others are running pre-mines where users can reserve spots. Since spots are limited, I encourage everyone to participate early and explore at least four DAOs before the mainnet launch.
Mainnet launch plans and future roadmap
Ehan:
Looking ahead, what does the roadmap for Vana look like? Are there specific plans or timelines for the mainnet launch or the TGE that you can share?
Art:
This is the question everyone is waiting for! We’re hard at work preparing for the mainnet launch. Details will be announced very soon, likely in the coming weeks. For regulatory reasons, I can’t share too much right now, but I encourage everyone to join our Twitter and Discord, where you’ll hear the news first.
I’m sorry I can’t reveal more at the moment, but know that I’m incredibly excited. I’ve probably had less sleep now than ever because we’re putting in a lot of effort to ensure the launch is ready. Our community will be the first to know, so please follow us on Twitter and Discord for early updates.
Ehan:
Thank you, Art, for sharing these insights behind Vana.
Art:
Thank you so much for your time. If anyone has further questions, you know where to find us — on Twitter or Discord at Vana.
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