With Botanix: Creating a Decentralized Bitcoin Layer 2
In this episode, we spoke with Willem Schroé, founder of Botanix Labs, about his cryptography and mathematics background, and the path to creating a decentralized Bitcoin Layer 2 project. Willem introduces Botanix, highlighting its fully decentralized structure, which enables global participation without central control. He details its secure, scalable design supporting Bitcoin DeFi via Ethereum Virtual Machine (EVM) compatibility.
The discussion covers Bitcoin staking, Layer 2 advancements, and what sets Botanix apart from projects like Babylon. Willem underscores Botanix’s role in the Bitcoin ecosystem and the critical importance of decentralization. He also shares insights on ecosystem growth, market volatility, and his belief in renewed interest in Bitcoin Layer 2 as infrastructure matures.
Botanix has launched its public testnet Aragog on December 4th and its mainnet is scheduled to launch in the first quarter of 2025.
Opening & Introduction
Colin:
Welcome to the WuBlockchain podcast. We’re a crypto media channel, and I’m the founder of WuBlockchain Network. So, my first question is, could you introduce yourself, your background, and the reasons behind building and launching Botanix?
Willem:
Absolutely. It’s great to be here, Colin. So, I’m Willem. I grew up in Belgium with a strong background in mathematics, and I even won a national math competition. I went on to study electrical engineering and cryptography, actually at the same university as Len Sassaman, one of the rumored candidates to be Satoshi Nakamoto. We shared the same advisors, such as Bart Preneel at KU Leuven, where I researched authenticated encryption. Much of my cryptography work informs Botanix’s design today.
Then I moved to Saudi Arabia for two years and later attended Harvard Business School. It was there, about two years ago, that I first started developing Botanix. I realized that Bitcoin, with the largest market cap and strongest security, is the most decentralized and best form of money we have, but it lacks applications. On the other hand, outside of Bitcoin, applications have found market fit and created significant value, most of them built on virtual machines like the Ethereum Virtual Machine (EVM).
So, I started thinking: if Bitcoin could be the most reliable money, why not bring applications to it? Around that time, there wasn’t much talk about Bitcoin Layer 2, and that’s when the idea took shape. Living in Boston, I was surrounded by many Bitcoin core contributors and talented cryptographers, especially at MIT, so I joined the MIT Bitcoin Club. Through those interactions, I developed what’s now called Spiderchain.
Spiderchain is a new kind of Layer 2 solution that is designed to be fully decentralized. We want a Layer 2 where anyone, anywhere, can participate and run a full node. Botanix is an EVM-equivalent Bitcoin Layer 2 that can be fully decentralized, and that’s what we’re building.
Thoughts on the HBO Satoshi Documentary and Len Sassaman as a Possible Candidate for Satoshi
Colin:
Yeah, cool. Before we get into Botanix, the HBO documentary about Satoshi is a hot topic right now. So, what do you think about Len as a potential Satoshi? Did you work with him, or do you have any thoughts on who Satoshi might be?
Willem:
I actually believe Len could be Satoshi. All the data seems to line up. There’s quite a bit of information available about Satoshi — for instance, his blog posts, the white paper, his writing style, and even timestamps showing when he was online over the years. We also know certain choices he made, like selecting specific cryptographic algorithms. For example, he used the Secp256k1 curve, which wasn’t an American-approved cryptographic protocol and wasn’t widely used in the U.S. All these points add up.
Interestingly, Len fits this profile well. He worked with Hal Finney, and during his time at KU Leuven, he did his thesis under David Chaum, one of the pioneers of digital cash. Len had a U.S. background, moved to Belgium to study, and was perfectly situated in terms of time zones. Consider the “Times of London” newspaper headline included in Bitcoin’s Genesis block, which was only available in the UK’s print version, not online or in the U.S. Our university’s cryptographic department actually had international newspapers right at the entrance, which was where many of us would pick one up, grab a coffee, and catch up on news. This detail makes a lot of sense given Len’s background.
Also, Satoshi’s code is largely in C++, but with a C-like style, which matches Len’s coding background. While we can’t know for sure without verifying his cryptographic keys, Len had a strong reputation for privacy, even having past interactions with the FBI. He knew exactly how to protect his identity and frequently used pseudonyms. It’s impossible to be absolutely certain, but all these data points together make him a highly plausible candidate.
When Did You First Encounter Bitcoin, and Were You Involved in Early Development?
Colin:
Cool. So when did you first notice Bitcoin, and were you involved in its early development?
Willem:
Yeah, I first came across Bitcoin while studying cryptography, around 2012. We actually discussed Bitcoin in our cryptography classes, which was interesting because my professor was Bart Preneel, one of the most renowned figures in cryptography, who also happened to be Len Sassaman’s advisor. That was my initial exposure to Bitcoin. After finishing my cryptography classes, I stepped away for a bit but returned to Bitcoin around 2017 or 2018.
View on the Current Bitcoin Ecosystem and the Relationship Between Botanix and Babylon
Colin:
Cool. Now, back to Botanix. What are your thoughts on the current Bitcoin ecosystem? Babylon has gained popularity recently, and they may launch a new token soon — possibly next month. Do you plan to collaborate with Babylon? What’s your take on Babylon and Bitcoin staking?
Willem:
I think it’s great. Before Babylon, only one person, Robin Linus, seriously considered Bitcoin staking. In parallel with Babylon, we both recognized that Bitcoin is one of the most valuable assets to stake. Babylon took a different approach, using Bitcoin as a staking asset in a way similar to EigenLayer, where it’s used to secure various services. We, on the other hand, saw the potential in the Ethereum Virtual Machine (EVM) and are building a proof-of-stake EVM that uses Bitcoin as a staking asset.
While there’s no direct technical collaboration between us and Babylon, we do have overlaps, especially with projects and co-marketing efforts. We frequently participate in events together. I like working with David and find that our perspectives often align.
Why Choose EVM Over UTXO for Botanix’s Architecture?
Colin:
Cool. So, the next question is about your choice to use EVM. We know the Bitcoin community, on Twitter and in Asian markets, is discussing Bitcoin’s potential with EVM. So why did you choose EVM instead of UTXO? Projects like CKB and others seem to go with UTXO, right?
Willem:
Yeah, that’s a great question. About two years ago, we were deciding which direction to take. There are several options like the UTXO model, EVM, Solana VM, and Move VM. I see these different solutions as similar to the early competition among operating systems. Think about the 1980s, when we had 30 or 40 different operating systems, but eventually, Microsoft Windows came out on top. Windows wasn’t the best or the most secure, but it had the widest distribution.
Similarly, today, EVM has the largest distribution. The infrastructure, tools, and auditing firms around EVM are extensive — its ecosystem is massive. So, while EVM may not be the best or the most secure, I believe it will ultimately dominate the virtual machine space.
Does Botanix Support Bitcoin Layer 1 Assets Like Ordinals, Runes, and BRC-20?
Colin:
Cool. Actually, in the first half of this year, some Bitcoin Layer 1 assets like Ordinals, Runes, and BRC-20 tokens have become very popular, especially in the Chinese and Asian markets. What do you think of these Bitcoin Layer 1 assets, and will Botanix support them?
Willem:
Yeah, I think it’s great. The more development, applications, and assets we bring to Bitcoin, the better. So yes, we absolutely plan to support them. One of the main issues with Ordinals, Runes, and BRC-20 tokens is the trading speed — you have to wait for multiple Bitcoin blocks and confirmations, which slows things down. Then there’s the issue of mempool sniping, where if you try to buy something, someone else might grab it first.
With Botanix supporting Ordinals and Runes, you’ll be able to trade these assets within seconds, with full confirmation. This will be a game-changer in terms of user experience.
When Is Botanix Launching, and What Are Its Main Technical Advantages?
Colin:
Okay, so when will Botanix launch? Is it imminent? And could you go over Botanix’s main technical advantages?
Willem:
Yes, let me start with the technical advantages. Botanix stands out because we’re pioneering full decentralization in Layer 2s. Right now, most Ethereum Layer 2 solutions are quite centralized — they use ZK rollups, which are technically trustless but not decentralized, and they lack true censorship resistance. For instance, if the U.S. government subpoenaed an Ethereum Layer 2 like Base, it would have to comply and could potentially shut down the network. It’s similar with Arbitrum — while you can recover your funds, these networks aren’t fully censorship-resistant.
With Botanix, we will be fully decentralized on day one of mainnet, with nodes spread across 15 jurisdictions worldwide. From day one, no single entity — not even us — will control the network. We’ll only operate one node, and we’re set to be the first to have fully decentralized sequencing. No other project has done this at launch.
This is crucial for Bitcoin because Bitcoin doesn’t have DeFi on its base layer, and DeFi requires a decentralized infrastructure. Ethereum’s base layer is decentralized, which allows its Layer 2s to afford some centralization. But for Bitcoin, where we aim for fully decentralized DeFi, Botanix provides a unique technological advantage. We’re nearly code-complete and expect to launch testnet v1 in a few weeks, followed by an audit. Mainnet is slated for January.
Colin:
Oh, so just three months away! You must be very busy.
Willem:
Absolutely. It’s going to be an exciting few months. Many have discussed the potential for Bitcoin DeFi and Layer 2 solutions, but right now, there’s hardly anything in this space. I believe we have a strong chance of breaking open this market and bringing true Bitcoin DeFi to the world.
What is the Current Status of the Botanix Ecosystem? Which Applications Show the Most Potential?
Colin:
Yeah, I think you already have strong branding as one of the most decentralized Bitcoin Layer 2s, which is easy for people to remember. Several months ago, I met some developers in Hong Kong who were building on Botanix, and I was surprised because Botanix wasn’t as widely known back then. Projects like Merlin were more prominent at the time. So, how is Botanix’s ecosystem now? How many applications are being built on it, and which ones do you think have the most potential?
Willem:
Absolutely, we have a strong ecosystem, and many developers truly believe in what we’re doing. They’re choosing to build on Botanix because they trust our decentralized approach and our focus on security. That’s what attracts the builders to our platform.
We’ve been building this ecosystem over the last year with a focus on quality over quantity. It’s easy to deploy an application or a DEX by copying code, rebranding, and launching. But attracting quality teams with solid go-to-market strategies, including big names from Ethereum, is the real challenge. That’s where we excel. Our growth is gradual, and that aligns perfectly with our long-term vision. We’re building for a 50-year horizon, which appeals to developers who want to create sustainable projects.
Currently, we have about 40 to 50 dApps and infrastructure partners ready for launch, including top-tier names (some not yet announced) and a variety of applications popular on Solana, Ethereum, and Arbitrum. We’re also introducing unique Bitcoin-native applications that weren’t possible before.
One area I’m particularly excited about is Bitcoin DeFi. Many Bitcoin holders don’t want to sell their Bitcoin — they want to use it as collateral. For example, if they want to buy a car, they’d prefer to borrow stablecoins against their Bitcoin rather than sell it. This native Bitcoin DeFi, where you can borrow stablecoins directly on Bitcoin’s Layer 2 and return to the base layer without needing to wrap or use Ethereum, is a major improvement in user experience.
Additionally, we’re supporting assets like Runes and Ordinals. I believe we’ll see a “season 2” of Ordinals and Runes once there’s an easy user experience on Botanix. Imagine applications like Curve or leverage trading — some of our DEXs are offering leverage trading on Runes and Ordinals, with the potential for 100x. We also have a large perpetual DEX from Arbitrum, like Vertex, which will enable leveraged Bitcoin trading on a decentralized Bitcoin Layer 2. If you make gains, you can instantly transfer your profits back to Bitcoin’s base layer in your cold wallet. I believe these applications will see major adoption.
Focused on System Development, No Airdrop Plans Yet
Colin:
In the Asian community, airdrops are a hot topic, though they’re still somewhat controversial. What are your thoughts on airdrops, and has your team considered any distribution plans or rules for a potential airdrop?
Willem:
Right now, our primary focus is on building a secure, decentralized application and expanding the ecosystem. That’s been our focus from day one. So, the short answer is that we can’t really comment on airdrop plans at the moment, but it’s something that we’ll discuss further down the line.
How Can Community Members Join the Botanix Ecosystem?
Colin:
So, if the community wants to keep up with the project or even join the Botanix ecosystem, what should they do?
Willem:
We have a full ambassador program running on Discord. Our team consistently delivers on promises, often exceeding expectations. We don’t make huge claims, but our Tier 1 ambassadors have received great rewards, and we’ll continue offering more. Many of our founding projects will do airdrops shortly after Botanix’s mainnet launch. For example, we have Bitcoin-backed stablecoins, DEXs, and even perpetual DEXs. Each of these projects will run airdrops within the Botanix ecosystem, so by being active, community members can receive airdrops from various projects along with native DeFi yield, offering significant potential benefits.
Additionally, we’ll have a major mainnet campaign, which will be particularly appealing to users in Asia and China. This will be an educational campaign to help users understand the ecosystem and gain various benefits. To stay engaged, following us on Twitter and joining our active Discord community are great starting points. We also have dedicated Telegram groups for different regions. We’re organizing meetups and regularly participating in conferences, so there are many ways to get involved.
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